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>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Hello. Thank you for joining us today. We'll get started in two more minutes. The webinar will begin shortly. Please note the webinar is being recorded and the materials including a transcript will be placed on the National Disability Institute Assisted Technology Loan Program site along with our other AT Spotlight webinars. And it usually takes about two weeks before the new items are posted to our website. And we thank you for joining us today. 
    And submitting questions or if you have technical difficulties for Q&A, please use the Q&A box to send us any questions you have during the webinar. To myself Laurie Schaller and Mary the presenter. If you are listening by phone and not logged into the webinar, you may also ask questions by emailing Hope Price at HPrice@NDI‑INC.org. Next slide. 
    So today's presentation is on Empowering Families Through Mediation and Coaching. Next slide. So National Disability Institute is based out of Washington, D.C., and we have projects focused across the United States. And we envision a society in which people who have a disability have the same opportunities to achieve financial stability and independence as people who do not have a disability. 
    Our mission is to collaborate and innovate to build a better financial future for people who have a disability and their family members as well. Next slide. 
    Our services include outreach and we provide these promotional webinars. We provide financial education and guidance on spending plan development. We provide referrals through the Assistive Technology Loan Program to financial counseling programs or programs that can help people get the assistive technology they need. And in many cases that is a grant or special loans that may not require repayment. 
    NDI received a grant funding this program through the U.S. Department of Education's Rehabilitation Services Administration next slide. 
    Today we are going to spotlight mediation as a way to begin the process of exploring, discussing, and decision making around future needs in an effort to ensure family unity and preservation. This recording along with our other Assistive Technology Spotlight webinars are recorded and posted to our site for future viewing. Next slide. 
    So I would like to introduce Mary Berk. She is a clinical social worker with a background in family therapy who has worked with families in both health care and community settings. Over the last 20 years, Mary has worked primarily with families facing the challenges of chronic illness, aging, and care giving. While working for group health cooperative in Seattle, she became interested in self‑management of chronic illness and the importance of empowering individuals and families to manage those things that they could control in the face of adversity. 
    Ten years ago she began training as a mediator and started an ombudsman program at the University of Rochester Medical Center in New York State. She addresses patient, family, and staff concerns in real time. And in 2021 she began the Family Mediation and Conflict Coaching Program at Lifespan. So we welcome Mary today to share her expertise. Thank you so much, Mary. 
>> MARY BERK: Thank you, Laurie. And thank you, all, for inviting me. Let me start by explaining what elder/family mediation is. Basically it's a forum for family decision making. It's a guided, structured conversation. And it's always facilitated by a neutral individual who's the mediator. Mediation is voluntary and confidential. You can't make someone come to it. But everything that's spoken about within the mediation is kept confidential. And it's founded on the principles of self‑determination and self‑consent. Next slide. 
    So Lifespan is an organization in Rochester that provides services to older adults. And our mission is taking on the challenges and opportunities of longer life. So we decided to offer this Family Mediation and Coaching Program, because we realize that family support or the lack of it will define the course of caregiving and future care planning. Families are the foundation of any long‑term care plan, yet there is no formal process for preparing them or including them. 
    As many of you know, by the time ‑‑ you know, when you start to encounter the issues of aging, you have no experience and it's ‑‑ it can be terrifying. And yet, families are the decision makers. So they need to be empowered to act on behalf of their family members. Family Mediation and Coaching should be affordable and accessible for everyone. And for that reason, we've made this a donation‑based service. Next slide. 
    So I'm a rower and I always love analogies with rowing. And I thought this was very appropriate. Caregiving families are literally all in the same boat. Unless they learn to work together, you can find yourself going in circles or getting swamped by the challenges of caregiving and care planning. Next slide. 
    So how can these conversations help your family? They prepare families to face the challenges associated with aging. And they can repair by helping resolve differences in making it possible for the family to move forward with planning. So I know people think of mediation as dispute resolution, but it is not always. Bringing people together with a facilitator, a neutral facilitator who helps them focus on the issues can really help families plan. 
    But inevitably, there are differences of opinion and perspectives in families. So it's also an opportunity to share those things among everyone and see if they can't be resolved. Next slide, please. 
    So things don't just take care of themselves. What if you develop a chronic illness or can no longer remain independent? I know lots of us think we will just go and go and go and some day after retirement, we'll die. We don't like to plan for anything like disability or a loss of independence. 
    What if your children are not aware of your wishes and must make some decisions on your behalf? And what if yours is a blended family or there's no clarity about rights and roles of the various family members? You know, this speaks to all the work one needs to do with an attorney around power of attorney and health care proxy, et cetera. And what if you don't know what's important to your adult children? Next slide, please. 
    So planning for someone in need of life‑long care is an ongoing process. It need to involve significant others. It needs to involve the siblings, the family members, friends, and community supports. I think oftentimes there may be an assumption that someone in the family will care for someone who's in need of life‑long care. But it's never really been discussed. Which, of course, can become a huge problem when the parents pass away. 
    This planning requires multiple adjustments and discussions over the years. It's not a one‑time conversation. And not every conversation requires a mediator. But it can be very helpful for initial conversations where the family sort of learns how to communicate differently in order to actually accomplish what they're trying to accomplish. You know, if it's decisions about various things or who's going to do what, it can be very helpful to have a facilitator in those early discussions. 
    And then it kind of models for the family the kind of communication that's effective for having these family meetings thereon. And parents who have a family member who's going to be in need of life‑long care really need to plan for their own retirement, their possible disability and death. Their plans or lack of it could affect the family. 
    So are there challenging conversations you've been avoiding? Things such as health care, housing, and living choices. What if you're no longer able to be independent? What do you want? Do you want to stay home? Do you want to go to an assisted living facility? Do you want help at home? Have you taken care of wills? Have you discussed personal property and various end‑of‑life decisions? So important for family members to know what it is that is significant to you. 
    So you need to share those conversations with family members. And I know they're not easy conversations. And I know often your adult children don't want to hear them. So it really can be helpful to plan to have a family meeting with a facilitator, because these are very tough topics for families. Next slide. 
    Are there challenges you've been avoiding with an adult child who will need life‑long care? Is that child now adult being involved in the planning? What are the expectations of siblings and other relatives regarding life‑long care? Have they been discussed with those people? Do you have a power of attorney, supported decision making? What about guardianship? All of these things need to be understood, first of all, by communicating with your attorneys and health care providers. And then they have to be discussed. And as I said earlier, there are frequent discussions. Plans will change and they must be adapted or revised intermittently through that person's life. Next slide, please. 
    Planning is bringing the future into the present so you can do something about it now. It's what we all know we should do. It's just hard to do. Next slide. So what happens with a family meeting? How does it work? So the first thing is if I get a referral from someone, I ask that person to make sure everyone that they want included in the meeting is made aware that ‑‑ not only made aware but has voluntarily agreed to attend the meeting. 
    If they have, then I do a phone intake with each family member, because I want to know what everyone's perspective is prior to having them all be sitting in one room. If there's an older adult, and there usually is, who is capable ‑‑ who is able to be in on the conversation, then I like to do an in‑person intake with that person. If an older adult has advanced dementia and is not able to participate, then of course I would not do the in‑person intake. 
    If a person is able to still participate to some extent, I want them there. We determine a meeting date and location. The family decides that. We can do both hybrid and virtual and in‑person meetings. I actually prefer in person. I like to have everybody in the same room. But if that's not an option, if there are family members who are out of town or can't make it to the meeting, then it's very nice that we've all gotten so skilled at Zoom and we will do hybrid meetings. 
    And then everyone gets a written summary of what to expect at the family meeting. I find that people are very anxious about these meetings. They're not sure what is going to happen. They're not sure what other family members are going to say. So it's helpful that they hear a lot about how the meeting is going to go prior to having that meeting. Next slide, please. 
    So once again, in the meeting, the mediation process is explained to the family. And they ask ‑‑ I ask them again if they're all in agreement to participate. If they are, then each person is allowed three to five minutes to share hopes, concerns, perspectives, worries, what they hope the meeting with accomplish. Anything they would like to say to the entire group. And that's uninterrupted. I'm really firm with people not to interrupt other family members or whomever is in the room when they're speaking at that time. 
    Once everyone's had the opportunity to speak in that uninterrupted time, then they're free to just have an exchange of ideas and thoughts and disagreements, whatever it is. And once that's in the process of this exchange, they identify the specific items they want to address. So the family then sets the agenda. 
    And once we know what they're trying to address, maybe it's three items, then we work on building an agreement with this consensus building model which is sort of a graded scale. Let's say somebody proposes a solution. The options are to be very enthusiastic, mildly enthusiastic. I can live with it, or I don't like it and I absolutely won't be able to say yes to that. 
    So it gives some latitude for everyone in reaching these agreements. Next slide, please. So what is my role or any facilitator's role? Again, it's to ensure that when they are entitled to speak without interruption, that they have that time. And probably the most challenging part of being the facilitator is managing the exchange. Once family members are free to talk with each other. I definitely discourage labeling, criticizing, all kinds of negative attacking and blaming of other family members. It gets you nowhere. I encourage the use of "I" statements and the person's perspective. 
    We try to keep it respectful, but there are some pretty strong emotions that show up in these meetings. And you do the best you can and I think when people come with the right intent of truly wanting to get to a ‑‑ an agreement or find solutions to whatever the issue is, it will be ultimately successful. A lot of these meetings have been highly emotional and then they're able to get to some decision. 
    And then the other piece that I have to do in order to make this move along is to identify the interests and values that are underlying their stated positions. And I'll explain that in the next slide, please. 
    So a lot of times people come into a meeting and they've got a specific position. An example might be I believe our mother needs to go to a nursing home. And that is their position. But finding out why they've reached that position can often ‑‑ and they can be very rigid with a position. But when you explore what got them to that position, you can often discover what's behind it, what are the interests behind it. 
    Maybe this particular adult child lives out of town and worries about his mom. Maybe they've had trouble getting help. Maybe she's fallen and now it no longer seems to be an option in home. There are many reasons why people choose specific positions. And once you can start having people talk about the interests instead of the positions, then you're much more likely to find a solution. Next slide, please. 
    So the outcome of the meeting. If they do reach an agreement, I prepare what's called a memorandum of understanding. Now this is not a legal document, but if families feel strongly, they can take it to their attorneys and have it made into a legal document. If no agreement is reached, the family's given an opportunity for a second meeting. And we remind the family that they've now heard each other ‑‑ each member's perspective and this subject matter has now become talkable. 
    They've done it once. They've talked about these difficult areas once. Now they can do it again. And it's also hopefully modeled communication that's effective in that particular family. You have to keep in mind that for many of these families, they've never had to come together as adults to make decisions. And they've had individual lives and individual experiences. And it can be very challenging to come back together and work collaboratively with other family members. Next slide. 
    The short‑term benefits. Everybody has had a voice. Everyone has a vested interest in this. They may not say they do. They may say I live out of town, I don't really know what's going on. Everyone wants to have a say. And one of the best benefits of these meetings is that everyone does have an opportunity to have a voice. It gives them an opportunity to better understand these family members who they may not even know that well anymore. 
    They may, you know, live in different parts of the country, not spend a lot of time together. But this is kind of a reacquainting with the family members. It enables them to develop new insights and understanding of the issues confronting the elder, the caregiver, and others. Very often they just ‑‑ a family member who is not involved every single day will not really understand the extent of the care that may be needed, the concerns that you may have for that person. 
    They don't know because they aren't there. So this is a chance to bring them up to date and give a very realistic picture of the situation. And it may also be an opportunity to see why some of those early family issues that very often get raised in these meetings have inhibited cooperation before. And maybe they can change that pattern now. Next slide. 
    So mediation is a problem‑focused approach. It is not therapy. The family has the opportunity to identify specific issues and the facilitator's role is to help them get to a point where they can reach some agreement on those issues. Families are far more likely to follow through on agreements that they create. If someone tells you, this is the way that your family should do this and it didn't come from you and your family, it's not likely you're going to follow through on it. 
    This is an opportunity for families to be empowered, to take charge of how things are going to go. And they may come up with a solution that wouldn't work for another family, but for them it's just what they needed.. And then in extreme cases, potential guardianship. Then mediation can be an alternative to court involvement. Next slide. 
    There are long‑term benefits to elder mediation as well. Again, I've mixed this earlier, but it is a process that models more effective communication. It's an opportunity to help families understand the value of planning ahead. When a child who's becoming an adult who has a disability and is going to need life‑long care, that requires planning. 
    When an older adult is diagnosed with a chronic illness or loses independence, that requires planning. None of these things work well when families try to solve problems in the middle of a crisis. And mediation is kind of a unique opportunity at this stage of life for families to plan. And it's invaluable. 
    There's also no other formal way of helping families plan. You know, there's nothing out there that teaches a family what they need to know. So this is an opportunity to do that. Conflict over the care of a loved one can lead to family estrangement. And estrangement impacts not only the immediate family and the extended family, but future generations. So another goal of mediation is family preservation. Next slide. 
    Conflict coaching. So this is an option that we offer. Often I offer it when someone has requested mediation but cannot get other family members to participate. So conflict coaching is one‑on‑one support when an individual is facing some unresolved conflict, a relationship breakdown, or a communication difficulty. Perhaps it's a caregiver who is having difficulty despite their efforts and they just feel hopeless and as if they've run out of options. 
    So this is, again, not therapy but an opportunity to sit down and I help the person sort of think about ‑‑ reflect on the challenge, and then identify and hopefully expand their thinking about a range of choices that they might have that they hadn't really thought they had before. 
    I also use coaching as a way to prepare family members who may be all having different ideas about what a good outcome would be. For example, if the concern is about an older parent and each adult child has a different idea of what the best solution would be, I will use coaching as an opportunity for them to work through that and come up with some agreement ‑‑ excuse me ‑‑ on what they want to say to that parent. 
    So conflict coaching is an option that is available much more on a one‑to‑one basis, but sometimes just to prepare people for mediation. Okay. Next slide. I think that may be it. And this is my contact information. If you have any questions that I can answer, please don't hesitate to reach out to me. I'm more than happy to answer anything. And thank you. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Mary, I see we have a couple questions here. People are asking, you know, if they live in another state outside of New York State, can people contact you? Can they participate in mediation virtually? 
>> MARY BERK: Absolutely. We have done virtual mediations. (Coughs) And if everyone's agreeable to that, they certainly can. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: That's great. And then another person asked could you share a story about like what sort of conflict might arise that coaching can sort of help people to see different ideas and make those changes? 
>> MARY BERK: Right. I had a family that was a blended family. The older adults got married later in life. Each of whom had two children. The now‑step siblings never interacted with each other at all. And the parents were married for about 10 or 15 years. But it was becoming a parent that the parents were ‑‑ it was getting a little bit dangerous for them living in their home. They didn't have any help. Driving was becoming an issue. They were both getting quite frail. But felt strongly they wanted to stay in their home. 
    The four children who had previously never really interacted were willing to come together for mediation and they talked about, first of all, they had to get to know each other. And then they talked about what they could do individually and together to enable these parents to stay at home. And they did. They came up with a number of solutions. All of the four of them ‑‑ or all four of them were participating in different ways. 
    And then we asked the parents to come in and they met with the adult children who then proposed these various solutions to them. And the parents were thrilled. I think they were thrilled that these four kids ‑‑ four adults ‑‑ were now talking to each other, but also with their solution of how they might remain at home. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: That's great. And Mary, you know, less than 6% of the housing stock in the United States is accessible. So chances are very few of us are living in a house that's going to meet our needs throughout our lifespan. You know, there are maybe seniors who need an accessible bathroom or they need like a wheelchair ramp or to have the threshold made wider so they can get through that with like a wheelchair that they need and things. 
    And I see that people are reluctant to have that dialogue with their adult children. And some people, you know, if I can't find a grant for them then maybe the only other option particularly when it comes to like a wheelchair‑accessible vehicle is for that vehicle to be purchased. Some people, you know, don't have enough income to be able to afford that but yet we would allow other family members to apply for a loan application to help to purchase that accessible vehicle to help that family member. Have you seen similar situations that, you know, if people could talk more openly it may allow for a person to stay in their home longer? 
>> MARY BERK: I'm trying to think of a specific ‑‑ I mean ‑‑ I think if adult ‑‑ if older adults are willing to have this conversation, then I think adult children would be open to options. But very often people are just sort of rigid in their positions. And that can make it very difficult. I haven't ‑‑ I can't think of an example at the moment that sounds like what you're talking about with the van and that kind of thing. I mean, I think it would be wonderful and it makes perfect sense. 
    Maybe for some families it just requires a conversation. To know they have that option. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Right. And I think, you know, just to learn how to start that dialogue and to know that, you know, we are here to provide information about how to find a reliable vehicle that has wheelchair accessibility features. About the financing options. And then often, you know, that accessible vehicle is just one piece of what family needs. 
    So I really would like to encourage people to reach out to you to begin that dialogue and we can cover the financing, the grant side of things, how to find reliable assistive technology. But I really encourage people to rely on Mary and Lifespan services to begin that dialogue. I think it can save a lot of money in the long‑term particularly if we're planning in advance of needing assistive technology immediately to address the crisis. 
>> MARY BERK: Uh‑huh. Definitely. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: As questions come to mind, I urge you to add more to the Q&A box on your screen. And I'm going to move forward and talk a little bit more about the National Disability Institute Assistive Technology Loan Program. Next slide. And if you could stay with us to answer any questions, Mary. 
>> MARY BERK: Sure. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: So how to save and afford assistive technology. If someone receives disability benefits through the Social Security Administration and that person is able to work, there are SSI and SSDI work supports that can help a person to purchase the assistive technology that they need. And because that person is paying out of pocket for that assistive technology, in some cases that will reduce that person's countable earned income so they stay in pay longer. 
    There's also a plan for achieving self‑support, a PASS plan. And people eligible for that can purchase a vehicle, for example, if they need that vehicle to be able to get themselves to their job. That can, again, reduce that person's countable income so they have extra income to be able to afford extra expenses around a vehicle and a vehicle purchase. And that's whether it's a vehicle that is modified or a vehicle that is not modified. Simply the need to be able to get themselves to their job. 
    And then there are savings accounts, ABLE accounts. And those are available through the Achieving a Better Life Experience Act, or ABLE Act. If we could go to the next slide and talk ABLE accounts. Those are available for a person who has had a disability that began before they turned age 26. So we meet many people, for example, that had instances that, you know, life began to get more difficult for them and they wondered if they had a disability. And maybe they applied for disability benefits through the Social Security Administration and it could have taken years for them to determine the person had a disability. 
    But in those situations, that person's disability began before age 26. So that person if they ask their doctor to complete a disability certification indicating that their disability began before age 26, they are ABLE eligible, and they hold that disability certification on file. 
    So a person who receives SSI, they have a resource limit. Usually it's $2,000 for an individual, for example. So as they start to ask family and friends or they themselves contribute money into their ABLE account, up to $100,000 is not counted towards that SSI resource limit. People who receive any type of Medicaid, there is no savings limit within an ABLE account. So a person could save well above $100,000 in their ABLE account and still be eligible for Medicaid, for example. 
    And a person who has a special needs or pooled trust or a 529 college savings account may deposit some of those moneys into their ABLE account from all combined sources within a year, a person can have up to $17,000 deposited into their ABLE account. If that person works and they live in the continental U.S., they can contribute from their employment earnings up to an additional $13,590 this calendar year. And it's more for those who live in Alaska or Hawaii, for example. 
    And we have a link here to the ABLE National Resource Center where a person can learn more. Next slide. So an ABLE account can pay for things like assistive technology. They can pay for education, basic living expenses including food and shelter. They can purchase a home with their ABLE savings account. A parent can purchase a home with their child's ABLE savings that that individual will be growing up in and living in in the future. 
    In addition, the family can use those funds to purchase a vehicle that that child maybe who was born with a disability would be transported in. So this really opens up the family's options. It can provide funding to cover transportation expenses, employment and training, personal support services. So maybe, for example, a person's approved for a certain number of hours for an in‑home care aide. So that person who wants more hours of services could pay for that out of pocket. 
    This can help to pay for health care expenses that maybe Medicaid or Medicare or their private insurance will not cover. And it can cover vacations, recreational activities, legal fees, and financial management. And in fact, it could pay for mediation services. And also funeral and burial expenses for that ABLE account owner. Next slide. 
    So NDI partners with financial institutions to issue and service pre‑qualified assistive technology loans above $30,000 now for residents of New Jersey and New York State. On our website if you live in another state, there are more than 44 of these programs and we have a list of all the programs that are available nationally. 
    NDI buys down the interest rate to either 6% for New York State residents or 4% interest so that the borrower experiences those lower rates of interest. And we have deposited funds with our partnering financial institutions to guarantee these loans that may default allowing for more favorable lending terms. For example, for a person who does not have a credit score, as long as that individual is able to afford their monthly expenses, any outstanding credit that they may have, and the purchase price of the assistive technology that they need, in many cases those loan applications are approved. And this can be an opportunity for that individual to develop a good credit history when they pay that financial institution on time each month. 
    So our services through this program include outreach and promotional webinars, financial education and guidance on spending plan development. We provide referrals to financial counseling or other programs that can help people purchase an item sometimes with a grant so that's at no cost. And we welcome people to explore our AT resource guides. And those are specifically for residents of New York State and New Jersey. And you're welcome to explore our other spotlight webinars that really talk about cutting edge assistive technology that can really help people. 
    For example, we have a presentation about tiny rooms that can be rolled up alongside of your home, for example, if a family member should suffer a stroke and you need quick access to accessible bedroom and bathroom, for example, within three days that could be set up for sewer system, electricity, and water so that person can be released, for example, from a nursing facility and come home as soon as possible. 
    So we welcome you to explore the different spotlights that we have available on our website and to share the fact that Mary presented today and talked about mediation services. And I think just hearing Mary's way of explaining things can help to invite family members to participate and to have open dialogue with one another. And Mary throughout the mediation process. Next slide. 
    Like I said, we have assistive technology resource guides at our website for New York State and New Jersey residents. Many of the assistive technology loan programs in other states have prepared the same resource guides for their residents. Next slide. 
    We have at National Disability Institute a Financial Resilience Center. And there is a wealth of information for people who have a disability who have family members who have a disability and for service providers. And it's a full range of information related to finances, about employment opportunities, people who have a disability are eligible for unemployment services, about FEMA services specifically, for people who have had situations related to climate change and have suffered damage to their homes or a family member maybe was lost to COVID. There is information there that can help a family financially with all the information that's posted there. Next slide. 
    We have a new initiative to inform people who have a disability about tax preparation and about free tax preparation services that are available nationally. And this is so important, because I am meeting people who are under the impression because they receive SSI and/or SSDI disability benefits, even though they may be working that they are not required to file income taxes. There are many advantages to filing taxes. And it doesn't have to cost you a ton of money. You can go to one of the free tax preparation sites and many of these sites are providing the free tax preparation services virtually. So a person who is working has the opportunity to accrue work credits that can qualify them for more benefits in the future including Medicare and retirement possibly on their own work history. Next slide. 
    So if you have any questions before we close out, we urge you to post those in the Q&A at the bottom of your screen. You are welcome to call me tomorrow with any questions that may come to mind. My telephone number is 202‑449‑9521. And we also have a poll we would like to ask you some questions. Hope, if you'd like to post the poll. So we would like to ask you what information was most helpful today. Do you need help finding a job? We can connect you with someone to help find a job in their community. 
    And many jobs now can be done from home. The next question is what type of assistive technology would you like to know more about? So in one session someone asked can they learn more about seeing eye dogs and how they can receive a dog. And so one of our future presenters will be talking about seeing eye dog programs that are available nationally. 
    Do you want to schedule an NDI AT loan presentation for your agency or community organization? And I am available to speak about the availability of ABLE accounts and also about work supports that are available for people who receive SSI and/or SSDI who live in New York or New Jersey as well. Please reach back to me, let me know if you're interested in any of those services. Mary, did you want to add anything else today? 
>> MARY BERK: I would just encourage people to consider these meetings with family members early on. It really is ‑‑ it can make a huge difference in the experience for everyone. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: That's great. I think it can help to keep people safe in their homes for as long as is possible. 
>> MARY BERK: Absolutely, yeah. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: And I think when we ask people where would you like to live, most people say boy I really want to stay in my home. 
>> MARY BERK: They do want to stay at home. And it's doable with a ‑‑ you know, when you've got the support of family and your services sound amazing. But I think that truly does seem to be what everybody wants is to remain at home. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Well, thank you very, very much, Mary. 
>> MARY BERK: Thank you for having me. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: It was a pleasure to hear the excellent services you provide in the community. Thank you so much and have a great day, everyone. 
>> MARY BERK: Thank you. 
>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Thank you.